"No" is the final, and perhaps most perplexing, chapter in the "No-Point" trilogy. If "No-Point Perspective" was the encyclopedia of nothingness for dummies and "No-Point" the professional's handbook, then "No" is the blank page at the end, the echo of a conversation that has finally run its course. Justin Allen and Andreas Müller, having exhausted all avenues of inquiry, meet face-to-face in Andreas' quaint village. The words dwindle, the silences grow longer, and the "no-point" reveals itself not as a concept to be grasped, but as what's apparently happening - life. With its minimalist title and even more minimalist content, "No" is a book that defies categorization. It's not about non-duality, it's not about spirituality, it's not even about nothing. It's simply "No," the final reduction of the original title of this trilogy. A fitting conclusion to a series of talks that started with a grand exploration and ended with a whisper, "No" invites you to step off the precipice of meaning and into the vast openness of what is.
Andreas Müller was born and grew up in Southern Germany. After having become a spiritual seeker in his teens, he met Tony Parsons in 2009. Since 2011, Andreas has been holding talks and intensives throughout the world.
Müller / Allen
No jetzt bestellen!
Weitere Infos & Material
| February 08, 2024 | Talk 22 |
BREAD CRUMB
| Justin Allen: | Okay, this is our first talk in person, and it’s the 8th of February. So this is our third time (22nd time) putting together some kind of a talk, but we’re doing it live together face to face. And I’m in your village. And just to describe it, it’s a small village in the south of Germany. And it’s what I would say is an average kind of apartment by German standards. And I came from Berlin, and we will do this for two days. So, this is our first conversation. |
| Andreas Müller: | Yeah. Lovely. Welcome. |
| Justin Allen: | Thank you. I guess what occurred to me was that I hadn’t come prepared for this talk. And like the other ones that we had, I also didn’t really prepare stuff, but I had a motivation and I had things that I had wanted to ask for a long time. So I think this discussion might be a little bit unusual only because I don’t have contrived or premeditated provocations. |
| Andreas Müller: | (laughs) I haven’t noticed that the former ones were provocations, actually, but yes. |
| Justin Allen: | The other thing is that last night we met and we had dinner. And we talked about things, in a sense, unrelated to this topic, where I got a little bit more of a sense of your life. But from that point until now, and then on the train ride here, I had a couple of |
| thoughts and I wrote them down on my phone. I don’t want to bring them up yet. It doesn’t feel like the right time. But I have some. Those are the two contrived (laughs) premeditated things that I’ve thought of. |
| I thought it would be interesting to just start by saying that we’re here. We’re looking at each other, and there’s no difference between us, or there’s no difference in the sense that you are there and I’m here. |
| Justin Allen: | So, from your point of view, there’s no differentiation because there’s no two different entities that are here talking to each other. |
| Andreas Müller: | Absolutely. Yeah. One could say so. It’s not really my perspective on something or my viewpoint, but this experience isn’t happening here. |
| Justin Allen: | From your point of view, it’s not happening to me either, even if I claim that it is. |
| Andreas Müller: | Exactly. And what’s recognized is this claim. So this claim is what seems to be happening, but there isn’t any reality of that recognized. |
| Justin Allen: | So if there’s a distinction between us, it would only be, in this case, when I claim that I’m somebody here. And that’s an illusion from your point of view, that somebody is here claiming that they’re there. |
| Andreas Müller: | Exactly. And that this claim is real, and creates a real separation or a real difference. Even your claim to be someone doesn’t create a difference for me. |
| Justin Allen: | But the claim, me claiming that I’m here, is as real as the window and the... |
| Andreas Müller: | Absolutely, yes |
| Justin Allen: | But that I’m actually here is the thing that isn’t happening. But the window is still happening. |
| Andreas Müller: | Apparently. And you, and, all this body, Justin, claiming to be a “me,” that’s also like the window or like everything else. And it’s not right or wrong. When I say it’s an illusion that there is someone, I don’t mean that I think it’s wrong that you claim to be someone. There just isn’t anyone, even in that claim. |
| Justin Allen: | So, however, we go from there. That’s the foundation, that there’s apparently people claiming to be there, and you’re reacting to those claims. In your discussions, I mean. |
| Andreas Müller: | Absolutely, yeah, one could say so. |
| Justin Allen: | And I thought of this just five minutes before we started, but then I wanted to start with that because in order for us to have this conversation, there has to be some sense of somebody here claiming to be a person. Or if there wasn’t, let’s say that it’s another “no me” over here on the other side of the table from you. Where would this go? |
| Andreas Müller: | I have no idea. There is no uh, (laughs) predictable outcome. I don’t know how we would end up after those one and a half hours. But, yeah, there wouldn’t be seeking. |
| Justin Allen: | In general, what I’m saying is that it seems unlikely and not often happening that, for example, you and Tony Parsons are sitting across from each other and recording a conversation about nobody being here. |
| Andreas Müller: | I would say this wouldn’t happen. |
| Justin Allen: | And it hasn’t happened. |
| Andreas Müller: | It hasn’t happened, and I think it can’t happen, actually. It would be so off to have this idea to sit down together and have a conversation about non-duality, and even record it, thinking that others...No, I don’t see this at all. |
| Justin Allen: | So that’s what I want to point out is that our synopsis of the first book was about, you not being there, me being there, and us having a conversation. And this third conversation that we’re having now still has that same kind of pretext or foundation. |
| Andreas Müller: | Well, If you tell me now that you still claim to be someone, then it’s going to be... |
| Justin Allen: | But I think I also don’t know how this conversation will go, but, in a way, by default, I have to be the person that’s here. You’re not here, and I have to be the person who’s here to engage in a conversation with you about non-duality. |
| Andreas Müller: | Yeah, one could say so. |
| Justin Allen: | But aside from confessing if I’m here… (laughs) |
| Andreas Müller: | I mean, of course, there could still be a conversation about non-duality when there is “no one.” But, of course, it wouldn’t be meaningful or important. It would just be playing around with ideas and concepts and viewpoints, which are all illusory. It’s not that I never talk about non-dual concepts in my life outside of the meetings, but they don’t have any meaning. Talking could also be any other topic. |
| Justin Allen: | But they don’t have any meaning anyway, either. |
| Andreas Müller: | That’s true, of course. |
| Justin Allen: | By you using the word meaning, to me, that just implies that if it’s two “no me’s” or “non me’s” talking to each other about this topic, you said there’s no meaning. But if there’s “no me” talking to an audience of 10 people who are claiming to be there, there’s also no meaning. |
| Andreas Müller: | There’s also no meaning. |
| Justin Allen: | But by you saying that there’s no meaning with two “no me’s” talking, that implies that maybe there is meaning. And what I think you’re implying is that there’s meaning on the other side. |
| Andreas Müller: | Or the hope for meaning, or the illusion of meaning. Exactly. And, of course, the person thinks that to me, it’s somehow meaningful as well. As we sit together here, have those microphones, or in a meeting as if it is meaningful, because that’s why we meet consciously and talk about it. |
| Justin Allen: | That was an attempt in a way for me to try to make a definition of our roles or who we are here talking to each other. And even though it’s not a claim, I’m going to use the word claim because there’s a lack of a word to express this. But you are claiming to not be there. |
| Justin Allen: | But you know what I mean. (laughs) |
| Andreas Müller: | (laughs) I know what you mean, but that’s just not the case. |
| Justin Allen: | But it’s a case that you would say, “I’m just not here. There’s nobody here.” |
